Goonhammer Interviews: Leandros "Leo" Mavrokefalos, Para Bellum Games

A little while ago, we sat down with Leandros Mavrokefalos of Para Bellum Games to ask him some questions. As Lead Game Developer on the Conquest products, we were keen to get an insight into how Leo’s brain works, and what gets him excited about wargaming. Thanks to Leo for taking the time to answer our questions.

Hi, Leo. Starting at the beginning; how did you start writing for Para Bellum?

So back in 2015-2016, the game was really just an idea in Stavros’ head (our Founder and Creative Director) and I came on board as a tester. My job at that point was to try out whatever rules were being developed and make sure they matched up with the vision Stavros had in mind.

Fast forward to 2017-2018, we got our hands on the first edition of the game and kept working on it internally. That’s when I started getting more involved adding new sections and tweaking parts of the Core Rules. From there, I kept writing and refining the game, and also kicked off some of our first community initiatives. That included launching the Vanguard Program and setting the stage for what eventually became our Organized Play!

Sorcerer Kings Efreet Flamecasters. Credit: Rich Nutter

What is the team like? How many people work for you, how do they report to you, what is a day in the life of a game designer like?

I’ve been incredibly fortunate to work with a really diverse group of people. When a business is all about creating original IP, it naturally brings together creative minds and business-focused people. That kind of environment has always felt like a privilege to me - I’ve learned so much from both sides. It sparked a real interest in how a company runs, while also helping me see and appreciate art in ways I never had before.

The team has grown a lot over the years - it honestly feels like just yesterday there were five of us in a room. Internally, we all come together to make sure our work stays aligned with Conquest’s creative vision. As we grow, we’re always keeping an eye on our processes to make sure they still serve what this whole journey is really about, our love for Conquest and what this IP can grow into.

Game design is a bit of a strange profession - it’s one of those jobs that also happens to be a lot of people’s hobby. That means you often get feedback - sometimes passionate - from veteran wargamers. While it usually comes from a place of genuine experience, it’s not always grounded in the realities of designing a game for a growing and diverse audience. At a certain point, you realize you just can’t please everyone. Once you get a look behind the curtain, you start to see the complexities involved, and it really makes you rethink some of the opinions you held before. I’ve said “Ohhh, I get it now” more times than I can count - which is funny, considering I used to be a very opinionated player myself, haha!

At the end of the day, every player has a million things competing for their attention, and yet they’ve chosen to spend their time playing Conquest. I am humbled by this and respect that far more than whether someone has read the rules cover to cover, is a competitive or casual player or is really critical of how we do things.

Ironclad Drake with Bergont Raegh - credit Bair

That's really interesting! I'd love to hear more of the specifics. When you sit down at your desk, what kinds of things occupy the majority of your attention? Reading feedback from playtesters? Writing elaborate spreadsheets? Playing test games? What's the grind like?

First off, as a Design Lead, your role involves a good amount of project management - especially when it comes to anything related to game design. Depending on the time of year, you’ll also be deeply involved in starter set designs of all kinds, advising on the miniatures themselves (how they interact with the game in terms of size, footprint, etc.), and providing input on future releases. Beyond that, you’ll handle Army Builder updates, advise the Community Team on upcoming updates and create Getting Started guides. Finally, there's making sure the Rules PDFs are out on time.

Then there’s the writing. The design process - assuming we’re developing a new faction (right now I’m working on the Weaver Courts) - typically starts with Stavros providing the faction’s background and place in the lore. That background is mostly set , as these factions, while new to the game, have existed in the world’s lore for years. Take the Yoroni, for example - they may have launched recently, but their lore has been around for a long while.

Once we’ve established the faction’s lore, I propose a playstyle inspired by their concept, and we discuss how to give that gameplay an original twist. Stavros then sends over briefs for each Regiment, and we go back and forth to determine what should be included in the faction and whether any new Regiment ideas conflict with existing ones. I then write a series of drafts, we pick our favorites, polish them into a complete army list, and send it off for testing.

From there, we go through multiple rounds of reviewing playtesting notes - lots of notes - and setting up online games to examine complex interactions and the overall feel of the faction. I also run internal games and demos to introduce the rest of the team to the new rules and ensure the faction plays as intended. Then it’s back to the drawing board to adjust the rules based on our findings - rinse and repeat.

All in all, the role involves a lot of moving parts, which isn’t always obvious at first. You’re not just writing rules - you’re building a game. That means the physical must come together with the theory of the rules and these working in tandem. At the end of the day, your job is to curate an experience, not just make a ruleset.

Wow, that's a huge number of different tasks! Is there any part of the process in particular that you'd view as your favourite?

It's hard to single out just one thing, but I'd say my favorite part is the ideation process. You can throw out the craziest, most out-of-the-box ideas and then shape them into something that fits Conquest's lore and a great gaming experience.

What are your favourite video games? What video game mechanic do you find the most interesting from a design perspective?

That’s a really tough question! I might catch some flak for this, but I honestly like my games to be on the “easy” side. I play video games to relax, kick back, and casually wipe out hordes of enemies without too much stress! Not needing any setup time really helps! Titles like Diplomacy is not an Option, They are Billions and Valheim will do it! That said, I do enjoy a good challenge now and then. Games like Slay the Spire, The Binding of Isaac, Factorio and Steel Division really scratch that itch for me, each in their own unique way. Maybe the occasional Path of Exile 2 session too.

When it comes to game mechanics though, I think Into the Breach absolutely nails turn-based combat for me. The way it “telegraphs” enemy moves for the next turn lets you focus purely on solving the puzzle in front of you, rather than feeling frustrated when something unpredictable ruins your plan. It’s a great example of a game that rewards you when you get it right, instead of punishing you when you get it wrong - and that makes all the difference.

Theokrator - Credit: Deadlytrout

What is your least favourite wargaming experience? How have you written the rules to prevent it from occurring?

Losing - and so I made sure I can write the rules so I can cheat freely! evil laugh while petting a Tontorr

In all seriousness, I really dislike the idea of alpha-striking. In Conquest, the Command Stack system goes a long way in preventing that, and it’s something that we are really proud of. I want players to always feel like they’re part of the game at all times - that they have meaningful choices to make and opportunities to respond, no matter the situation. The goal is to avoid that feeling of being stuck in a losing position with nothing to do. Everyone should feel engaged and feel like they still have a shot, right up until the end.

Speaking of, Conquest has been through several big balance changes over it's lifespan so far. What's one we didn't get to see? By that I mean, what's an idea that you loved that you caught and killed before it went public?

Honestly, too many to count. When you're designing games, you have to be willing to let go of things you love. If you’re keeping everything you’re passionate about, chances are you’re designing for yourself - not for a community of players.

For example, the Quatl and Pteraphon were originally created to introduce “flying” rules. But fliers come with a ton of balancing challenges, and there’s a lot of negative bias around them - largely due to how they’ve been handled in other games. That bias was strong enough that we ultimately had to scrap the idea even though we could eventually make it work.

What mechanical interaction are you most concerned about from a balance perspective? Things like falling back and shooting, area of effect/template abilities, healing on heavily armoured units, etc?

Having significantly more Command Cards than your opponent can create a big advantage - and that’s something we’re very aware of and actively working to address. It’s incredibly important to strike the right balance between elite, low-card-count armies and those with lots of activations. Both playstyles should feel viable and rewarding, without one clearly outpacing the other just because of how many cards are in their Command Stack.

Domaru-Damashi painted by Sam Isaacson (not Josh)

Which faction's design are you the most proud of?

That would be Yoroni. It’s a great faction for new players - you can pick them up and start seeing the rewards of good decisions right away, without being harshly punished for early mistakes. Skilled players rightfully identify Yoroni as a high-complexity Faction but that is in regards to how high the skill ceiling can be. In my opinion the beauty also lies in how accessible the proverbial “floor” is as well. It can keep teaching you and challenging you, from your very first games of Conquest all the way to the final tables in competitive play.

We're definitely big Yoroni fans here at Goonhammer Towers, especially the refreshing approach to army building and gameplay style. If you can say without giving future plans away, do you think there's much space left in Conquest for new army or play archetypes that we haven't seen yet?

Great question! I’d say design space is something you always need to be actively working to expand. It’s a constant push and pull - creating new space while also using it thoughtfully. Right now, Conquest still has a lot of untapped design space, and we have been exploring it with the introduction of the Weaver Courts.

Oberon - Credit: Rachel

What is the worst patch, update or edition you have ever seen, wargaming or video gaming?

Diablo III and the introduction of the Auction House. As their Lead Developer said, “you have to protect players from ruining their own fun” - and that’s exactly why they ended up removing it. There is a real difference between what kind of gamers we all think we are and how we actually end up playing/purchasing games. I believe this has been a real cautionary tale for designers and their communities.

What is the coolest place in your hometown?

My home!

What is everyone wrong about?

Greek cuisine! It’s mostly non-meat. Today Greeks eat more meat as fast-food has become more prevalent but most of our traditional cuisine is heavy on vegetables with emphasis on high quality ingredients. We eat lamb like, 2-3 times a year!

What is your secret recipe?

As most Greek dishes might seem too different, here’s a dish most folks will like. It’s a meat sauce for either Bolognese, Lasagna or simply for Burrito/Tacos.

Take 1kg of Ground Beef and place it in a large pot on high heat with a bit of oil. Leave it as a solid block, do not break it up.Keep searing it from all sides until it’s brown. Break it in half and sear it again. Keep breaking the parts and sear the unseared sides. Once you have done this a few times then break it up and wait for any humidity to reduce before throwing in one finely chopped onion and 2 cloves of finely chopped garlic. Let it shimmer until golden brown.

2 Tablespoons of Tomato paste - make sure to let it sear first. High heat prevents tomato from giving off an acidic taste. Stir, add wine and keep it on high heat until the alcohol evaporates. Fill the pot with boiling water and drop the heat to low. Add a couple of bay leaves and vegetable stock (you can find them in cubes, 1.5 will do). Let it boil for 2 hours at low heat.

Remove the lid and add olive oil, oregano and some spicy herb of your choice. Reduce to your liking. Choose pasta - preferably linguini - that are high in protein. You can tell as they have a texture.

If you like it “sweeter” you can add one grated carrot with your onion and garlic. If you want to use it for anything that will go in the oven or pasta sauce, reduce less. If you want to add it to a sandwich or tortilla reduce more.

And finally, do you have a favourite piece of Conquest artwork?

The box cover of the original Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings 2-Player Set was the first piece of artwork we created that truly captured the depth of Conquest’s lore. I can't quite remember though if it was the Nepenthe stories that inspired the art work or the other way around. Although Nepenthe came out much later the story was written very early. Either way, this is the cover of the first box we ever released, so it holds a special place in both my heart and my living room!

Conquest Core Box Set artwork. Credit: Othon Nikolaidis/Para Bellum Games

Thanks again to Leo for taking the time to answer our questions.

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Tags: interview | Conquest | leo | Para Bellum